Next Smackdown - Undertaker vs... Festus!?!

From willierko on 4/5/08 11:10 PM

I LOVE IT LOL AND I DON'T KNOW WHY

From theone86 on 4/6/08 1:53 AM

I hate Festus, I hate the Jimmy WANG Yang gimmick, I hate WWE's stupid obsesseion with finding the dumbest people possible and turning them into faces. Everyone who goes after TNA for having stupid gimmicks, well Jesse and Festus are just a small part of my rebuttle.

From theminister on 4/7/08 10:01 AM

When you have 5 hours of TV time to play with a stupid gimmick here and there isn't so bad. When you have 2 hours you can't waste time with Stone Cold Shark Boy, Curry Man, a Gold Dust makeover and whatever Relik is supposed to be.

BTW Festus is funnier than any gimmick TNA has.

From theone86 on 4/7/08 2:58 PM

Festus is stupid as hell. I don't know why people think mental retardation is so hilarious. "Huh, huh, look at dat stupid jerk, he's got sumthin wrong up in da head." Yeah, it's sooooo funny.

Shark boy and Curry man are pretty stupid, but the fact is that TNA isn't saturated with stupid gimmicks the same way WWE is. One of the top tag team contenders is an Asian who thinks he's a redneck; the guy who used to be a pirate now has a freakishly close relationship with his sister; every now and then we're subjected to intentionally botched singing because, you know, it's so funny to listen to that over and over and over; and please tell me how a grown man acting like a savage caveman is any less ridiculous than one acting like a weird monster; then you've got your greasers straight out of, well, Grease; you've got Smackdown number one announcer, because racial stereotyping never gets old; you've got the freaking Boogeyman, and a leprechaun that has respected wrestlers chasing him around the ring before pulling a pratfall. Just when I think I'm finally rid of Eugene they bring in another retard character for the retards to laugh at. And it's not like it ever stops. These characters always get pushed no matter how old they get. It's the type of stuff that isn't funny the second time and is plain old the third time, but WWE doesn't even stop there. Nope, we've got to take bad gimmicks and run them into the ground, then when everybody's sick of it we release the wrestler because he, "just can't get over with the fans." I don't know how long I had to be subjected to Eugene riding other men like horses, or Hornswoggle pulling Wiley Coyote crap with Jamie Noble, and I don't know how many more times I can watch an accomplished wrestler like Jimmy Yang do the two step to the tune of a bad country song, or watch a couple of morons come out to biscuts and gravy. Say what you will about TNA, but when was the last time you saw Rellik wrestle the World Champion? Never, that's when, because TNA doesn't put people who are only on the air because of a crap gimmick in main events.

As for Goldust, that was an original Dustin creation. It's not some gimmick WWE forced on him, it's his own character. He has almost always wrestled as some form of the Goldust character, why should he all of the sudden be ridiculed for it now that he works for TNA?

From theone86 on 4/8/08 2:13 AM

You know, I was just watching TNA Today and they had footage of a kid doing the Curry Man dance that got me thinking, what images would I want my kids to watch if I had any? Jimmy Yang and Funaki, who support bad Asian stereotypes; Jesse and Festus, who make stupidity something to look up to and mental retardation something to poke fun at; Hornswoggle, who runs around like a cartoon character and gets a reaction because of his size, effectively setting back the goals of small people everywhere; and JTG and Shad, who perpetuate negative stereotypes of African Americans? Or would I rather them watch Shark Boy, who parodies the Austin character in a way that makes it look stupid, effectively undermining values like alcoholism, belligerence, and unchecked aggression; or Curry Man, who is based on a Japanese food mascot? I'll stick with Shark Boy and Curry Man. I find it pretty offensive that WWE gears these supposedly harmless and good-spirited characters towards kids, all the while perpetuating negative stereotypes and hostilities.

From theminister on 4/9/08 10:05 AM

theone86 you've got to be kidding. TNA stereotypes just as badly if not worse than the WWE.

They stereotype the mentally ill with it's Black Reign character. Black Reign is the evil second personality of Dustin Rhodes. Mocking the seriousness of mental illness.

They sterotype the results of traumatic head injuries w/ Shark Boy's Austin persona which was supposed to be a result of the multiple beatings that he endured.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Rhino was a drunk who fell off the wagon. AJ Styles plays an idiot, simpleton character from the south. James Storm is a beer swilling Cowboy. Eric Young is a mentally challenged character w/delusions of grandeur. Robert Roode is a male chauvanist, woman degrading jerk. TNA is certainly saturated with these type of characters. And all this happens in 2 hours of airtime a week.

Pro Wrestling is generally speaking a caricature of society. So you have to expect goofy overly exaggerated characters who stereotype extremes in society. If you're so concerned about the images your kids will see, I have a simple solution for you, don't let them watch pro wrestling.

From theone86 on 4/10/08 4:06 AM

Well, that last part's a given. Still, no matter what the age images on TV can still have a profound effect. For example, if someone grows up in a predominantly white community with little exposure to racial diversity things like watching Cryme Tyme week in and week out only reinforce the negative stereotypes which formed the only basis for their opinions of African Americans.

I think the difference between WWE and TNA that I'm getting at is that TNA tends to not glorify certain aspects and WWE tends to glorify and exxagerate them. Take James Storm for example. He's a more classic example of an alcoholic. You rarely see him drinking, but you always see him with a beer in his hands. He's not rowdy, loud, or a loose cannon, but he always has the beer with him. Plus he's a heel. Now take Steve Austin. He's less of a classic alcoholic and more of a binge drinker. Everything about his character is exaggerated to the fullest, and he's a face. What's really being said with these two charcters. One is reinforcing the positive stigma that goes hand in hand with binge drinking and reinforcing it as a male right of passage, and the other is portraying someone who most people might not even recognize as an alcoholic at first glance, much like it is in real life.

Look at Robert Roode and Chuck Paulumbo. What does Roode look like when he degrades women? A jerk. Add that to the fact that TNA is letting Booker go ahead with an angle that is taking women seriously and portraying Booker as someone who is defending these women because it's the right thing to do. Now look at Chuck Paulumbo. When he degrades women he is, among other things, revving his motorcycle and vying for attention by being as loud and distracting as possible. His abuse is more subtle and focuses more on reinforcing masculine norms of not being able to properly express feelings. It's tougher to see his abuse and people are more likely to sympathize with that character. Plus look at Jamie Noble. He was all gung-ho to run in and save Michelle, but once she said she wanted to be just friends he just disappears. Angles involving women in WWE rarely lack a sexual subtext and have nothing to do with truly platonic relationships or respect for women.

Let's look at the handicapped. Zach Gowen basically had people taking a shot at his leg all the time, and WWE very often uses small people to run angles that demean them. How about Eugene or Festus? What does that do with people's opinions about mentally challenged people? I'll tell you what it does, it reinforces stereotypes and misconceptions. Conditions like cerebal palsy and autism typically have a wide range of severity, and what characters like Eugene do is box all mentally challenged people into one encompassing stereotype. It simplifies people's reactions into just, "Oh, he's a retard," or, "Oh, he's slow." It's really a much more complex thing. The you look at someone like Black Reign. Is he mocking mental illness? No, he's portraying someone with a personalty disorder because it's his way of translating his own feelings into a character. Just look at what you're writing, you're accusing Eric Young of being mentally challenged. What has his character ever done to suggest that? He plays a superstitous, timid, paranoid character who gains courage by dressing up as a superhero. That has nothing to do with being mentally challenged. Already you're being conditioned to associate mental illness with personality quirks. I know it may seem miniscule and nitpicky, but that's exactly the point. We're constantly being acted on by social forces such as the media, and if we don't make these distinctions we start to lose them. Ask yourself what's the message in all this? It's not just how you percieve it, or how you try to percieve it, but what message is being sent.

From theminister on 4/10/08 7:42 PM

I understand what you're getting at and I certainly appreciate the thought you've put into it. I have a 3 year old daughter with a Cerebral Palsy and certainly know about that sort of thing.

I think you overestimate the thought that the WWE and TNA have put into all of this. I don't think either side intentionally goes out of its way to belittle certain groups of people. For every Cryme Tyme there is a Shelton Benjamin or Elijah Burke. So the sheltered white kid will see more than one depiction of black athletes. So I don't really see that as an issue.

As for Eric Young, TNA clearly has made him into their version of Eugene. He is that childlike character who seems a little slow. Perhaps my calling him "mentally challenged" was a bit harsh. But I was likening him to Eugene and I don't see that as a reach.

Storm and Austin are a good comparison. Austin swills a lot of beer but generally it's in celebration. Not a great image but it could be worse. TNA actually pushed Storm's drinking so hard they had a mock title that he and EY competed for. Storm's character is horrible and I hope they change it soon.

Overall I agree with you that the stereotypes are not good and just promote bad taste and ignorance toward those people groups. I just think that both WWE and TNA are guilty of it.

Ultimately my point was that TNA does these silly characters just about as often as the WWE. Except they only have two hours a week and should not waste their time on these types of characters.