From FLCchampRUSH on 5/21/08 6:04 PM

You know, I can't think of anyone who fits into that category. I mean, there's plenty of guys who you can make cases for, (Jeff Hardy comes to mind) but at the end of the day, you have to ask yourself if you can build/maintain a brand behind that person, IF they are capable of handling the pressures of being the flagship star of that company, as well as if they are of solod character (meaning, that you KNOW that they won't no-show, and are relativly trustworthy people).

From damn123 on 5/21/08 6:05 PM

I think that it's shelton benjamin

From jeff on 5/21/08 7:58 PM

Guys that have been in the WWE over 5 years that deserve a World title:
Matt Hardy
Shelton Benjamin
Kane(a longer title reign then 1 day and the new ECW championship doesn't count at a World title in the WWE.)

Guys that have been in the WWE 5 years or less:
Mr. Kennedy
Umaga
CM Punk
John Morrison(maybe)
MVP(I hate saying that)

As for TNA:
Christopher Daniels(unless he has been champion then never mind)
Kaz(Interesting to see him as champion)
Robert Roode(even though I hate him he does deserve it)
Alex Shelley(Like Kaz it would be interesting to see him as champion)
Chris Sabin(like Kaz and Shelley it would be interesting to see him as champion)

From theminister on 5/21/08 10:34 PM

FlCchampRUSH: The solid character issue is exactly why Hardy hasn't gotten a run with the WWE Title. But your point is is a good one. That's why many guys never get their shot with the gold. Hardy is a perfect example of a guy who probably deserves a title run but his inconsistent behavior has cost him.

From FLCchampRUSH on 5/21/08 10:44 PM

Jeff: I agree with Morrison, Benjamin, and maybe MVP. Kane is too one-dimensional a character to keep the strap on long-term, I'd make him a transitional champ (no longer than 2 or 3 months). Punk is very soon gonna hold the strap (hopefully his size doesn't hinder the higher ups from making him a great champ). Hardy is... what's the word... Not good enough (that hurt to say, a little)? Kennedy has to stay healthy long enough, and Umaga has to either start speaking english or hire someone that can (but please not another Armando Estrada).

From cptcharisma1157 on 5/21/08 11:04 PM

all time greatest wrestler to never hold a world title is Roddy Piper...

Punk and Morrison held the ECW title, and i consider that a world title.

I think the best active wrestlers (or most deserving wrestlers) to never hold a world title are
1) William Regal
2) Matt Hardy
3) Jeff Hardy
4) Christopher Daniels
4)a) Chavo Guerrero (if you don't count the ECW title)
5) Shelton Benjamin
6) Val Venis
i might post an argument to back up each of their cases later, but im too tired right now

From jeff on 5/22/08 1:24 AM

You just said that Morrison and Punk held the ECW title and that you consider it as a World title. Yet you put Chavo down and he held the ECW title as well.

FLCchampRUSH: I didn't want Kane as a long term champion, but over a day would have been nice, but its too late now because Kane has gained weight and his wrestling skills aren't like it used to be. I have to disagree about Matt not being good enough for the World title. His rivalry with Edge was awesome and it showed that he deserve a run at the World title or at least become a contender for the title.

From theminister on 5/22/08 10:08 AM

I agree with Piper as the best all time never to hold a world title.

Regal is a good one. But he obviously has personal issues that make it difficult to put a world title on him. They let him be KOTR and look what he did with that.

In my blog I mentioned how I think the ROH title is a world title. That would exclude Punk who has held the ROH title.

Punk also held the ECW Title when it was more like a world title. Morrison also held that title when it was treated more like a world title. But things change when Chavo won the belt. I mean Chavo wrestled in the Rumble and Kane was in the Smackdown Battle Royal for the WHC. Obviously, no one in the WWE considers the ECW title a world title anymore. But the first few champs in the new ECW, RVD, Big Show, Lashley, Morrison, and Punk certainly seemed like World Champions.

Shelton has been mentioned a few times and certainly he has all the talent to be a World Champion.

Kane has also been mentioned but he has been a WWE Champion. I know it was only one day but that's one day longer than a lot of guys so he doesn't qualify.

cptcharisma1157: Val Venis??? The other guys you mentioned I can see but Val Venis??? I'm curious as to why you think he would deserve a World Title.

From FLCchampRUSH on 5/22/08 10:43 AM

I question his (Matt Hardy) ability to sell himself as a champ. When he was cruiserweight champ (which they don't even acknowledge as a reign anymore) he showed promise, but nothing to the caliber of a World Heavyweight champ. As for his feud with Edge... Yeah, it was a good one, but that was because there was a lot of REAL emotion in that feud. When you take the kayfabe out of the equation, it doesn't stand strongly enough against other rivalries. If he could put that kind of emotion into EVERY kayfabe feud (even the one with MVP), then I'll change my mind on him.

From cptcharisma1157 on 5/22/08 2:04 PM

Jeff, that's why i had it as 4 A... Chavo i think did deserve a legit world title, and if you dont count the ecw title as a world title, he makes my list for guys who deserve one over punk and morrison...

And i think val venis is one of, if not the most underrated guy in wrestling. His debut was huge, and he was over right off the bat. He's never had a bad reaction from the fans. Even now if your at a live event and he's on heat, people give a big pop when they hear "HELLO LADIES." When he debuted (about the same time as Edge, Christian, Mark Henry, the Hardys, and The Rock) he was probably the best young guy they had. Multi-time IC and Euro champ, Val should have never been dropped to the undercard, cause he's still popular and still talented. He deserves a main event push.

For the Hardys, I consider Matt to be better than Jeff. He's a better technical wrestler, and better on the mic. I think they both deserve world titles, but Matt slightly more than Jeff. In fact, if I was running the WWE, I would have a tournament for the vacated SmackDown title, and have Matt win it. That would result in a mega-push with him holding the US and World Title.-- I'd probably give him a two month title reign and have him lose both belts, similar to how Angle lost his "Euro-continental title."

And of all TNA's original talent, I think Chris Daniels deserves the TNA title most. He used to be right up there with Styles and Joe, and somehow he faded away. (he was always my favorite of the three too.)

From cptcharisma1157 on 5/22/08 2:06 PM

to re-itterate, i just mentioned that i consider punk and morrison to have already held the title cause people had them on their "most deserving lists"

From cptcharisma1157 on 5/22/08 2:08 PM

one thing i forgot to mention is i think that kennedy and mvp should also both be given world title reigns fairly soon, but i think Carlito deserves it a little more than them

From DoubleL on 5/22/08 5:03 PM

I'd have to say Matt Hardy deserves a heavyweight title. Though he doesn't steal the show like his brother, he does make up for it with solid ground work, technical work and way better mic skills than Jeff. Matt deserves a push as the champion.

From theone86 on 5/22/08 5:55 PM

Does the Alpha Male count as active? Because if so, that's who gets my vote.

Mr. Kennedy and MVP are up there too. Pretty much I don't disagree on anyone but Umaga. He's billed as a mid-card character at best, and until he drops the gimmick that's all he's going to be.

I know I'm going to take a lot of heat for this, but Robert Roode.

I'd also like to mention Booker T. I know he's held World Titles before, but he's LONG overdue.

As for people who went their whole career without World Titles, I can't think of too many right now, but I can list a few who never won one in WWE. Ted DiBiase, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat all come to mind right away.

From bpapa on 5/23/08 12:07 AM

With the way the past six months or so have gone, it's really hard to not name Jeff Hardy as the top choice - not only that, but he's one of the best guys out there who HASN'T had a World title yet that actually has a realistic chance of getting one. And I wouldn't even say it's "realistic" but "likely."

Then you've got William Regal, who perhaps up until earlier this week, suddenly seemed like somebody who had a realistic chance of getting the WWE title soon. But if you name Regal, you'd have to name Finlay as well - if they are going to give Regal a huge push out of nowhere, what's to say that the same won't happen to Finlay?

Matt Hardy is another guy that's been around awhile. He very well may win a World title soon, but his chances don't seem as real as Jeff's are. You've got the guys who aren't in that spot yet, but eventually will be - MVP, Mr. Kennedy (although his stock has fallen in this category A LOT), and maybe even Umaga. If you don't want to count the ECW title as a world title, then add in CM Punk and John Morrison.

In TNA you've got most of the top guys as former champs, either in WWE or TNA. The higher level guys who haven't done it yet are Tomko, Robert Roode, and Christopher Daniels (although that ain't happening anytime soon with him under the Curry Man mask).

If you want to count ECW and TNA as World titles, some may want to include ROH's top prize as well - so add in Chris Hero and Claudio Castagnoli.

To be honest though, to me the only real world titles right now are those defended on RAW or Smackdown. And if you want to cry about me biased against TNA, note that I am not including ECW either. So, here's my list of the Top 10 guys in the industry that have yet to have held one of the WWE's Top 2 titles... also considering the chances that a guy actually has to do the thing (ie, don't expect to see Paul London on this list).

1. Jeff Hardy
2. Matt Hardy
3. MVP
4. William Regal
5. CM Punk
6. AJ Styles
7. Umaga
8. Mr. Kennedy
9. "American Dragon" Bryan Danielson
10. Samoa Joe

From cptcharisma1157 on 5/23/08 12:19 AM

bpapa if you don't count the TNA title, the top name on your list should absoulutely be Christian. He is every bit as good as Edge, if not better. (Obviously I'm comparing the two of them cause they were partners) Christian is far better on the mic than Edge. And in the ring, they are pretty equal. Christian is a better heel than Edge, and a better face than Edge. Towards the end of his WWE run he was far more over than Edge had ever been. So your list really should have Christian if not at # 1, at least right after the Hardys.

Secondly, Finlay over the last 3 years or so has gotten a ton of big pushes whereas this was Regal's first big push since the Alliance. Plus, while Finlay and Regal are similar, I would give both the in-ring and the on-mic edge to Regal.

From theone86 on 5/23/08 2:36 AM

If you want to get technical, PWI doesn't recognize the ROH Title as a World Title, it only recognized the ECW Title as a World Title from 1999-2001, didn't recognize the NWA Title from 1992-2002 and then stopped recognizing it as soon as TNA dropped it, stopped recognizing the AWA Championship after 1990, and does consider the TNA Title a World Title. The only other Title to be recognized as a World Title by PWI, besides WWE's two Titles, was the WCW Title from 1991-2001. PWI's recognition is generally accepted as World Title acceptance.

If you want to get REALLY technical, you could make the argument that any top Title in a promotion that has been defended internationally is a World Title, in which case I'm not quite suer if the TNA Title is or not. If you want to get even more technical, only the top Title in the world would be considered a World Title, in which case I would argue that, based on promotion alone and not on match quality, that the WWE Title is THE World Title.

If you suscribe to the first theory, I'd say that you're getting semi-technical and that if you want to enforce nuances you should go all the way to the second theory. If you suscribe to the second theory, then it's pretty hypocritical to call the TNA Title NOT a World Title and call the World Heavyweight Championship a World Title.

From theminister on 5/23/08 7:15 AM

In my humble opinion, there are 4 titles today that can be considered world titles. Obviously WWE and WHC. TNA is generally considered a World Title as well. ROH isn't considered by PWI as a world title but if we're honest it has been defended internationally more times than the TNA title and has been held and competed for by top notch international stars. A guy like Bryan Danielson held the ROH Title and defended it internationally. Not just Americans but international stars like Nigel McGuiness & Takeshi Morishima have held the belt. I don't care what PWI or anyone else says that's a real World Title. The facts are clear.

I would include the current ECW Title but the WWE has let us know that they don't see that title as a world Title by allowing Chavo to be in the Rumble and Kane to be in the Battle Royal for the WHC. I would count ECW as a world title up to CM Punk's reign. Once Chavo got it, it lost it's status.

My top 5 Greatest Active Wrestlers Never to Win A World Heavyweight Title
1. Chistopher Daniels
2. Jeff Hardy
3. William Regal
4. Shelton Benjamin
5. Mr. Kennedy

From bpapa on 5/23/08 8:18 AM

Why get technical about it? Belts like the Intercontinental Title, the European Title, even the frikkin Hardcore title have been defended all around the world. And the guys that held those belts probably were about as famous or as money drawing as the average TNA champion (Kurt Angle as TNA champion who is far from washed up is obviously a level above). The only difference is that those past and present WWE titles don't have "World" in the name. But then again, neither does the belt that Triple H currently holds. It's a silly thing to disqualify them for.

The WWE and World Champions are obviously on a different level than ROH, ECW, and TNA titles are. You could argue that The Great Khali or Batista don't posses the same amount of skill as say Bryan Danielson or Samoa Joe, but that doesn't matter, the WWE guys are in more visible spots and more make-or-break in terms of entertaining millions and millions of fans around the globe. To me, that's a World title.

From theone86 on 5/23/08 1:41 PM

"World" infers the top Title in the world, having none below it. If you want to go by strict definition, you have to pick just one to recognize. If you want to be more lax, World would mean that it's the top Title in the brand where it's defended. Technically, the designation "Intercontinental" means the same thing as World, only it's considered a step below. It's not so much that a Title is defended in multiple countries, but the top Title in a promotion that is defended in multiple countries.

TNA has a lot of exposure around the globe as well. They've done a lot of work with ROH and Dragon's Gate, they've held successful and widely praised events in Japan, they have more than a few wrestlers in Japanese promotions, some holding Titles, they have their World X Cup which bot gives foreign wrestlers exposure in the States and gives them recognition around the world, Matt Morgan is going to be on American Gladiators this season, and they have wrestlers branching out into MMA. As for make-or-break, that's a pretty generic term, but I think I can gather what you mean and TNA has plenty of wrestlers who are "make-or-break". Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels, Kurt Angle, Sting, Scott Steiner, Booker T, AJ Styles, Abyss, Christian Cage, Team 3d, Matt Morgan, and Tomko are all internationally recognized wrestlers, and TNA has plenty more talent that has gained a good degree of exposure and praise in wrestlers like the Motor City Machine Guns, Jay Lethal, LAX, Elix Skipper, Kaz, Rhino, Sonjay Dutt, and Petey Williams. In terms of internationally recognized wrestlers, which is pretty much what PWI bases their opinion on, the TNA Title IS a World Title.

From theminister on 5/23/08 4:02 PM

I'm not saying the WWE & WHC are not world Titles or that TNA isn't a world title. But they don't have to be the only ones after all there are different companies in wrestling. And just about everyone of those companies has a TOP TITLE and most have secondary titles. I'm not saying that the ROH title is better than any of the other world titles I'm just saying that it deserves some recognition. I said if TNA is considered a World Title then ROH probably should be as well.

A World Title is an subjective designation. No one has ever been able to put a solid definition on what it means. ROH's primary Championship has been defended in other countries against competitors from those countries. That to me seems like a good definition of a world title.

I agree that the TNA Title is a world Title my argument was that The ROH Title has been defended is as many if not more places against a international competition, thus the ROH title is also a World Title. In no way was I trying to put down the TNA belt.

I'm not sure why bpapa wants to do away with TNA's World Title status but that's his opinion. But using his logic, Hulk Hogan would have been the only World Champion in the Mid-80's when he was "in more visible spots and more make-or-break in terms of entertaining millions and millions of fans around the globe." The NWA/WCW was not reaching anywhere near the amount of people worldwide, or nationally for that matter, as the the WWF was. So bpapa, was Ric Flair a World Champion in the mid to late 80's??? Of course he was. Because it's not about how many people see you wrestle, it's about where and who you defend the primary title in the company you're a part of.

From theone86 on 5/23/08 11:57 PM

Yeah, I agree with you Minister. Technically, the WCW Championship wasn't recognized as a World Title until 91, and then Ric Flair was the first Champion. Although WCW had been using the NWA Title up until that point, Flair was the first WCW World Champion and it gained World status immediately upon his winning it. If you go by PWI logic, Flair was a world Champ before he was a WCW World Champ.

Still, with champions like Sting, Jeff Jerrett, Christian Cage, Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, Raven, Rhino, and Abyss, I don't know how you consider TNA NOT a World Title.

From Deadman91 on 5/28/08 10:20 PM

Piper, both Matt and Jeff Hardy, and MRRRRRRRRRR. KENNEDY!..............KENNEDYYYYYYY! (I love saying that and writing it as well)