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Gemini523
joined wrestlingmarks.com on 2/12/08
Kurt Angle
by Gemini523 on 2/12/08 5:48 PM
Kurt Angle is overrated. It's great that he won a gold medal at the Olympics, but that doesn't make him the greatest wrestler in the world. The only reason he's on top now is because of the Ankle Lock and that just happens to be the most difficult submission hold to escape from. He uses it like a crutch. Now I know what you're thinking. Lots of wrestlers use submission holds as finishers like Bret Hart, Chris Jericho, Sgt. Slaughter, The Iron Sheik, Ted DiBiase, and countless others. But you could escape their submissions but you can't esacpe the Ankle Lock especially when Kurt grapevines it. And another thing since when did he become a 12x champion. He's a 9x champion, not 12. He's a 4x WWE champion, 1x WCW champion, 1x World Heavyweight champion, 2x TNA World champion, and 1x IWGP champion. Do the math that's nine. Where the hell did 12 come from? Anyway I just think that Kurt Angle is overrated and gets way too much credit. He does have some skills but not enough to be called the greatest wrestler in the world.
Comments
(33 total)
From JamesP on 2/12/08 5:52 PM
You didn't do anything to support that argument. You just bashed the ankle lock and questioned his number of title reigns
From jeff on 2/12/08 5:59 PM
Dude you've got to be kidding me. Have you seen the matches he's had in the WWE. Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels. a classic. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit. another classic and trust me their are plenty more matches that Kurt Angle has been in that were great. This guy is not overrated he is one of the best wrestlers ever.
From bpapa on 2/12/08 6:26 PM
there are very few active guys out there that have had as many good matches in their resume as Angle does. Not only is he one of the best today, but in terms of sheer talent he's one of the best of all time. .
From theone86 on 2/12/08 6:36 PM
You ask any wrestler in any promotion and they'll say that Kurt's one of the best. People love wrestling him for the simple fact that they can just go in there and freestyle so easily with him. He brings his mat sense to the table, he brings some killer throws, he can chain wrestle like no one else, and he's not afraid to go up high. And best of all, he's got a great sense of ring psychology and pacing. He is THE consumate wrestler.
From theone86 on 2/12/08 6:39 PM
I don't know where 12 comes from, though. It's probably some decision backstage to count his ameteur championships or something. Something tells me that Russo might be behind this...
From JamesP on 2/12/08 6:40 PM
I agree with theone86
From davecrave7 on 2/12/08 7:11 PM
Yea, angle is def. top 5 greatest wrestlers of all time.
From 92tombstone92 on 2/12/08 7:18 PM
Kurt Angle is deffinately not one of the top 5 greatest wrestlers of all time top 50 yes top 5 no
From SnoHo24 on 2/12/08 7:58 PM
I agree with tombstone. Top 50 not top 5.
From cptcharisma1157 on 2/12/08 8:07 PM
"It's great that he won a gold medal at the Olympics, but that doesn't make him the greatest wrestler in the world."- technically that does make you the best wrestler in the world
From SnoHo24 on 2/12/08 8:10 PM
Thats Olympic wrestling though, not WWE or TNA. True, Angle could waste almost everyone in REAL wrestling, but that's different than what Gemini is refering to (I believe).
From cptcharisma1157 on 2/12/08 8:12 PM
he is a twelve time world champion... 9 in pro wrestling, two world championships in freestyle wrestling, and one olympic gold medal.
What makes the ankle lock harder to escape from than those other submissions, you know how many times i've seen people just roll out of that or kick him with their other foot... but that doesn't even matter. You're finishing move doesn't make you any worse of a wrestler (and you're saying he's worse because he has a better finishing move than those guys?). Anyway, I think you're making a horrible argument dude, Angle is at worst in the top five wrestlers ever. I'd give him at least top three.
From SnoHo24 on 2/12/08 8:17 PM
Don't get me wrong, Angle is good. But you also have to consider all the other superstars in WWE history.
Flair- 16 titles
HHH- 11 titles
Sammartino- 7 yeat title reign
Andre- 15 year unbeaten streak
That's not even scrathcing the surface. Angle is a great wrestler, there's no arguing that. I just don't know if I would say he's good enough to be a top 5 or even top 10 contender.
From cptcharisma1157 on 2/12/08 8:39 PM
thats ur opinion... my argument was mostly aimed gemini who seemed not to think angle was that great at all...
That being said, when I try to think of the best wrestlers ever I go more based on ability than on accomplishments. Cena and Batista are both three time world champs, so if you use the logic of comparing them souly on accomplishments you have to say they're two of the best around. If you go based on wrestling ability I wouldn't put them anywhere near the top. The guys that I'd say are the best ever are guys like HBK, Angle, Y2J, and The Rock; they have it all. I'm not old enough to have seen any Sammartino matches, or even much of Andre but I'm not gonna say they're the best simply because they got pushed the most. I'm gonna make my judgments based on in-ring ability, and mic skills.
(One old-school wrestler that you could say is one of the best, based on ability is Ricky Steamboat. I've seen a lot of his matches and they were up to par with anyone today, but most of the older generation wrestlers didn't have the abilities of the athletes today.)
All that being said, Angle is one of the best from every angle. 12 time world champ, first triple crown winner in TNA and WWE, WWE grand slam champ, only person to hold WWE and WCW title within the same year, IC title, Euro title, Tag title, the list goes on. Not only is he one of the top four most talented wrestlers ever (along with Rock, Y2J, and HBK) but he is also one of the top four most accomplished wrestlers ever (along with Flair, Triple H, and Sammartino).
From theone86 on 2/13/08 12:01 AM
You're never going to be able to assemble a proper top anything list with wrestling. For one, we never agree on criteria. One guy says one wrestler sucked because he was just a big monster, then someone else says that he could work a match well and he could sell, then someone else says he was booked badly, then someone else says he had a bad workrate or he had a track record of injuring other wrestlers. There's simply too much criteria to be able to say one way or another, this guy's in the top ten, but this guy's not. The only way to do that is to do it right, sit down with a SHITLOAD of wrestling videos, I'm talking at least one match from every promotion that each wrestler that's up for consideration has ever been in, go through taking notes for matching criteria, compile rankings, put the list together, and you're still going to have it called into question because you didn't consider non-American wrestlers, or you missed some guy from the indies who the big guys haven't caught on to yet. There's so much criteria, and so much criteria that can conflict with other criteria, that you're never EVER going to get a list compiled. The best you can do is what PWI does and make a list of wrestlers who have made large accomplishments in the past year, or make a hall of fame.
From bpapa on 2/13/08 12:11 AM
Or build a website with a weekly Top 10. :)
From davecrave7 on 2/13/08 12:02 PM
Angle could do it all, was an amazing performer. He is Definitely top 5 greatest wrestlers of ALL time. Old time wrestlers for the most part, could not keep a job today. Its like in any other sport, athletes are bigger, stronger, faster, and better now than they ever have been before. (Im not saying that all old time wrestlers were bad, there were definitely good ones, but generally, they are better today.)
From 92tombstone92 on 2/13/08 1:13 PM
like i said hes not top 5 hes top 50 he has some of the greatest matches in wwe history but more people beat him at that and more people beat him at holding titles too and he has a big ego he think he is everythign just because he won ONE gold medal hes overrated and not that entertaining to watch he had a better career in the WWE than in TNA and everyone knows that now hes just a fill in for TNA like Christian and all the other former WWE superstars minus Tomko Tomko just followed Christian to TNA while he was still Christians lacky. but like i said Kurt Angle top 5 no top 50 yes
From DaneBramage on 2/13/08 2:58 PM
Even if you don't consider Angle one of the top five of all time, top 50 is by far an exagerration, top 10 definitely.
From cptcharisma1157 on 2/13/08 3:01 PM
If you don't think he's entertaining that's you're opinion (I think he's very entertaining, and always has been) but you can't discredit him, because you're not a fan. I'm not a fan of Rey Mysterio or Jeff Hardy, but I'll give them credit where it's do. The fact is not a lot of guys beat him in the title holding category (12 time world champ, triple crown, grand slam, kotr, ic, euro, tag, x), and almost nobody can beat his match quality.
Once again, I think davecrave has made some of the best points, that's why I said you can't compare Bruno and Andre, their match quality isn't like matches today.
From 92tombstone92 on 2/13/08 9:07 PM
Yes Angle has had GREAT Acomplishments in his career but his career is slowly dieing hence why hes on TNA but other wrestlers has had much greater accomplishments
Flair- 16 time world champion
HHH-11 time world champion
Undertaker-First to win royal rumble at #30 spot undefeated at wrestlemania
Edge-12 time tag champion 3 time world champion and i'm not saying hes undefeated at mania cause edge has been in all 3 money in the bank matches and lost 2 of them !
From JamesP on 2/13/08 9:36 PM
But WWE doesn't count the MITB loss since he was taken out on a stretcher mid-match. And Kurt's pretty accomplished, too. He's a 9 time champ, has held every major world title, held every title in TNA at the same time, and is a Grand Slam champion in WWE.
From cptcharisma1157 on 2/13/08 11:09 PM
tombstone, I think Kurt's accomplishments rank higher than everybody you listed except Flair. Definitely Edge...how can you compare 12 tag titles to 9 world titles?
From theminister on 2/14/08 9:45 AM
Angle is one of the greatest in ring performers EVER!!! He is perhaps only comparable to HBK as far as in ring ability. When he was in the WWE he rarely had a bad match and wrestled in some absolute classics.
As far as accomplishments go he has 9 world titles in an 8 year career!!! Flair has been going for 30 years. Triple H has been around for 14 years. Angle has done more in a shorter period of time than anyone!!!
From cptcharisma1157 on 2/14/08 10:42 PM
i didnt even think about the longevity of the career, your right. In fact you clinched it for me, and I'll say it right now... Kurt Angle is the best in ring performer ever. Kurt Angle is the most accomplished wrestler ever. Kurt Angle is the best professional wrestler in history.
From cptcharisma1157 on 2/14/08 10:42 PM
i didnt even think about the longevity of the career, your right. In fact you clinched it for me, and I'll say it right now... Kurt Angle is the best in ring performer ever. Kurt Angle is the most accomplished wrestler ever. Kurt Angle is the best professional wrestler in history.
From cptcharisma1157 on 2/14/08 10:42 PM
i didnt even think about the longevity of the career, your right. In fact you clinched it for me, and I'll say it right now... Kurt Angle is the best in ring performer ever. Kurt Angle is the most accomplished wrestler ever. Kurt Angle is the best professional wrestler in history.
From cptcharisma1157 on 2/14/08 10:50 PM
and my computer just started having a seizure, i didnt try to post that last one more than once
From DaneBramage on 2/15/08 9:02 AM
I don't see how his career being shorter than others makes his accomplishments better. In my opinion putting on great matches for 25 years+ is better than putting on great matches for 8 years+.
From theminister on 2/15/08 1:08 PM
DaneBramage the original premise of this blog is whether or not Kurt Angle is overrated. People were using number of titles as a criteria. If we do then we have to look at Time span. 9 World titles in 8 years is a great accomplishment. Something very few people have ever done. I think it proves that he is NOT overrated and is in fact one of the best ever.
I am in no way criticizing Flair's or HHH's accomplishments. Both have had amazing careers and are true greats. All I'm saying is Angle's unfinished 8 year career measures up very well with anyone elses career. He is not overrated in fact given how many titles he's won in such a short time and given the uality of his matches over his career, I'd argue he might be underrated.
From DaneBramage on 2/15/08 2:41 PM
I think any way you look at it, Angle is one of the best of all time.
I do think there are better though, and they managed to do it 'better'. By that I mean the likes of Ric Flair and Triple H have managed to put on so many good matches throughout their careers, but without being anywhere near as broken down as Kurt Angle's body is.
By no means do I think Kurt Angle is overrated, but I do think he should have been 'smarter' about how he's achieved his legacy.
From theminister on 2/15/08 3:51 PM
Your first line is all I've been trying to communicate. Angle is one of the best of all time. And to answer the blogger, he is not overrated.
There are so many ways that people can try to determine "The Greatest of All Time." It's impossible to really decide. I have no problem with people thinking Flair, Triple H, Angle, HBK or any number of wrestlers are the best of all time. You can make legitimate cases for many wrestlers. There are many wrestlers deserving of consideration for "Greatest of All Time".
From cptcharisma1157 on 2/15/08 5:02 PM
Flair and Triple H have put on many great matches in their career, but I don't think either of them have put on a match as good as some of the ones Angle's put on. My favorite match ever was Angle vs. HBK, and also ranking in my top 10 two matches Angle's had with Benoit, and one he had with Benoit and Jericho. Not to say Trip and Flair haven't had great matches, but I think despite how short his career is, he's still put on more top notch matches than either of them.