From theminister on 8/12/08 6:09 PM

I agree that Eddie was great so this is no disrespect to his memory or legacy but he's not even close to the top ten. I can think of 20 or 30 wrestlers at least who were as good if not better than Eddie.

Here are some comtemporaries of Eddie's who were generally considered better than him: Flair, Hogan, Sting, Steamboat, Bret Hart, HBK, Triple H, Rock, Austin, Mick Foley, Benoit, Jericho, Owen Hart, Savage, Undertaker. That's just comtemporaries and not an all time list. Eddie was very good but lets keep it in perspective.

From DoubleL on 8/12/08 7:41 PM

Ok here we go . . . . . . .

Andre the Giant was the 1st big man that drew for the WWWF in the early days before Hulk Hogan. The man was a great, but limited athlete, which is understandable. His classic handicap matches where he would take on the 2-3 jobbers at once was a cool way to show off how good he really was. Andre was also the first battle Royal which was held at Wrestlemania 2 when he threw over Bret Hart to get the win. Andre was a true legend by both his dedication and appearance to the WWE.

Jim Ross, I would have to agree 100%. The man is one of the best play by play announcers ever to call a match. Jr is up there with greats like Gordon Solie and Gorilla Monsoon to be inducted to the Hall of Fame. Yeah he might lack the comedic humor at times but hey that?s what the King was there for, but his catch phrases we hear time in and time out of someone getting their ass kicked like a "government mule" abd "business is about to pick up" are great catch phrases that he thoughout of and love to hear him say them on the Smackdown telecast.

Eddie Guerrero, the man was a great entertainer had great matches throughout his career especially in ECW and WWE. I really can't put my finger on any WCW matches that I would call "great" plus that whole LWO bullshit with the latinos was overkill, but him throwing coffee on himself and walking out now that was probably his best shoot he did in WCW, but in my mind, his best match of his career would be his match at Wrestlemania 20 with Kurt Angle was by far the best match I have ever seen of his. Guerrero was a great worker and could do amazing things in and out of the ring also was a great promo guy so I'd say he definitely needed to be inducted but to go as far as say top ten wrestlers of all time eghhh that?s stretching it a bit much, I'd say top 20, 25 at most but top ten . . . come on that?s a bit much.

From theone86 on 8/12/08 10:17 PM

I'm going to say it, Andre never would have made it big in this era of wrestling, however he did pave the way for this era. He was great for his time, and sometimes that's what matters most.

As far as Eddie's contemporaries, that list is taking a lot of liberties. Usually a contemporary is someone whose career starts and ends at about the same time, usually within a few years. I don't think Steamboat can rightly be called a contemporary as he was pretty much finished by the time Eddie was just starting to make it big in the states. Hogan, Savage, Sting, Flair, Undertaker, and even Foley had successful North American careers before Eddie. although Foley is fairly close to Eddie in terms of his debut, he retired right when Eddie was almost at the height of his career.

Triple H and Rock could only be considered contemporaries as the height of their careers came during one of Eddie's most active periods. Their respective careers are both a few years younger than Eddie's.

Although Owen debuted at around the same time as Eddie, he had already made a large impact by the time Eddie was just starting out. Bret was a good decade ahead of Eddie in terms of debuting, and was at the top of the WWE food chain by the time Eddie was wrestling in WCW. Even Michaels debuted a good three years ahead of Eddie and was at the height of his career when Eddie was starting out. Really Austin, Beniot, and Jericho are the only ones who would be considered "true" contemporaries, although strong cases could be made for Rock, Foley, and Hunter. Still, the rest would more properly be considered peers or predecessors.

As far as being in the top 10, he definitely has a case. Even among the people you listed, there's only one person that I think can for sure be considered a better wrestler than Eddie, and that's the Dragon. Even a lot of the top stars you mentioned are often called into question for being overrated due to periods of bad workrates. Taker, Foley, Hogan, Flair, all of them have had criticisms levvied at them about how "great" they really are. I'll be honest, Eddie's in my all-time top 10 and I think I'm keeping a very decent perspective.

As far as good WCW matches, he had some great oens with Mysterio and Jericho. His U.S. Title reign had some pretty good matches, with the highlight being his loss to Dean Malenko. Another really good and overlooked fued is the Filthy Animals vs. Revolution.

From bpapa on 8/12/08 10:39 PM

I was kinda miffed when WWE rushed Eddie into the HoF so early. Is Eddie a HoF quality wrestler? Oh, absolutely. For about a decade he was among the cream of the crop of workers in the industry. He had a strong run in WCW and an awesome run in WWE that including a World title reign.

But when Eddie got in so quick, at the time my attitude was - geeze what the heck are the qualifications to get into the HoF? Keep in mind at that time guys that WEREN'T in the Hall included Dusty Rhodes, Jerry Lawler, The Sheik, and Ric Flair. Should Eddie get into a HoF before those guys? I didn't think so.

Of course, we know that the qualifications are "whoever the WWE wants to put in" so it isn't a big deal, but at the time I was hopping mad. I think that in the years since the HoF has become even more and more of a bigger deal, and therefore legitimate, so it doesn't bother me so much anymore.

From 92tombstone92 on 8/12/08 10:56 PM

ok i'll admit that i was pushing it when i said Eddie should be in the Top ten if not the top ten than at least the top twenty. bpapa you actually said two HOF that i was actually gonna do next in Hall of Famers Part 3 (Dusty Rhodes and Jerry Lawler) Also, i will soon start blogs of Future Hall of Famers. Anyways the reason Eddie Guerrero was inducted into the HOF fame so shortly because he was very much respected in the locker room when he was alive. Also, he had an amazing career.

From theminister on 8/13/08 9:17 AM

Theone a contemporary is someone who's career overlapped significantly. The facts are that Eddie debuted in 1987. So every guy on my list wrestled significantly during Eddie's career. The only guys who can be questioned is Steamboat who retired around 2000, so I'll give you that one. Everyone else wrestled at least 8 years overlap with Eddie.

Here are more facts about Eddie:
He was a ONE TIME World Champion who had a 4 month title reign. Lesnar, Orton, Cena, and JBL have held the title longer and as many or more times.

He was a 4 time World tag champion. The Hardys, Edge, Christian, Booker T, have done more than that.

He was a two time US champ and two time IC Champ and there are tons of contemporaries who can say that.

He was a 2 time cruiserweight champion in WCW, again this was done by many people. Hell, Billy Kidman won that title 3 times plus 4 WWE CW Titles.

Truth be told he was a midcard wrestler for most of his career in the big three (WWE, WCW, ECW). He wasn't really considered main event until around mid 2003. So he was a main eventer for 2 years max.

Most wrestling historians don't even consider Eddie the best wrestler in his own family. That honor goes to his dad Gory.

In 2002 the Wrestling Observer had a list of the top 100 wrestlers and Eddie was not on it. He wasn't even in the next 10. This is 15 years into Eddie's career.

Those are the facts.

I agree that Eddie was one of the most entertaining superstars of all time and always put on a great show. He was plagued by demons that he overcame and he should be commended for that. He was respected in the locker room, which he should also be commended for.

Honestly, Was Eddie great? Yes. Was he one of the best? Yes. Was he a Hall of Famer? Definitely. Is he one of the top 10 of the last decade? Probably. Is he top 10 or even 20 all-time? Most certainly not.

From theminister on 8/13/08 9:19 AM

Correction: Steamboat retired in 1994. 7 years into Eddie's career.

From theone86 on 8/13/08 10:34 AM

I still disagree with your definition of, "contemporary". I think it's way too vague. By that logic you could say Bruno Sammartino was a contemporary of Shawn Michaels because thier careers overlapped by three years. The fact is that by your definition almost every modern wrestler could be considered a contemporary of almost every other modern wrestler. I think it makes for a much better comparison when you take into account things like when the height of their popularity occured, how old they were in comparison when that happened, and what generation of wrestlers they come from. I don't really think comparing Flair, who was 15 years into his career when Eddie debuted, to Eddie is a good comparison.

And then you start to take popularity into account. You say Steamboat retired 7 years into Eddie's career so that makes him a contemporary, well Eddie was just starting to wrestle in America in 94. Different markets make for different levels of exposure, and generally WWE viewers are not aware of wrestlers from promotions like AAA or New Japan. So to say that people who wrestled for different markets at the same time are contemporaries is also a stretch.

As for Title reigns, if this was a competitive sport that would be a meaningful statistic to me, but it's not, so it's not. By that logic you could say that Jake Roberts, or Ted DiBiase, or Dusty Rhodes, or Harley Race don't deserve to be on an all-time list because they never won WWE World Titles. Winning a Title is an honor, certainly, but you can't discount the fact that the wrestling industry as a whole has a TON of politics that play into that decision. Hell, Jerry Lawler has more Title reigns than anyone in history and I wouldn't even include him in my top 30.

And again, if you extend the scope to include ALL wrestlers EVER, no I don't think Eddie would be on the top 10, which is why I don't like all-time lists. They present a very small picture on a very broad subject. For instance, you could make a case for people who were innovative like Lou Thesz or Dean Malenko, but then you're leaving out workers like Bret Hart and Ricky Steamboat, or great heels like Flair and Ted DiBiase, or memorable figures like Bruno Sammartino and Hulk Hogan. You also have to consider the sheer reach of the industry as a whole. Japan, Mexico, and the U.S. all have very large stages with a lot of history to them, not to mention the indys, European wrestling, and other markets that are out there. Eddie might not be on a top 100 that includes all those factors, but that just means the list isn't giving him credit. Maybe he doesn't deserve to be on it, but the fact that such a large-scale topic is being covered by such a small list doesn't do his career justice.

So I stand by my assertation, Eddie's on my personal top 10. What does my personal top 10 consist of? It's wrestling through my perspective. I can appreciate people like Steamboat and Savage (who are also on my top 10) because I was around to see part of their careers. However, Bruno, great though he may be, doesn't make it because I missed his career. Do I think that's unfair? No, that's the perspective I view wrestling from. If you asked me to make a list of most influential wrestlers Bruno would be in the top 10, if not #1, but that's not what I base my list on. I base my list on the best workers, most entertaining, most athletic, and most innovative wrestlers that I've seen in my lifetime and I think, given those requirements, Eddie is a shoe-in for top 10.

From theminister on 8/13/08 11:52 AM

Fine if you want to say that Eddie is one of your personal top ten, that's cool. But the original assertion by this blog was that Eddie is Top 10 ALL TIME. To say he's All-Time top 10 is simply ludicrous. I respect what Eddie did as much as anyone but top 10 All Time is a bit much. And my comments have been designed to prove that point.

Also your Sammartino/Michaels reference is just silly. The Guys I listed as contemporaries of Eddie wrestled large portions of their career during Eddie's Career. I admit Steamboat was a stretch but he's about it. All the other guys were full time workers while Eddie was a full time worker. Savage, Sting, Hogan, Flair, Bret Hart, Jericho and Benoit all worked with Eddie in WCW. In fact all those guys were winning titles in WCW while Eddie was also winning titles in WCW. So prime portions of their careers overlapped. Jericho, Benoit, Rock, HHH, Undertaker all worked with Eddie in WWE and were in their primes or entering their primes while Eddie was there. Of those I mentioned, only Steamboat and Owen didn't work with Eddie in one of the Big Two promotions. But Owen was certainly a comtemporary. Owen debuted in '86, Eddie in '87.

As for Title reigns, I mentioned them because they show where a guy stands in the scope of a wrestling company. Generally speaking the guys the company considers their best most marketable guys get the most and/or longest World Title reigns. Those are generally the main event guys. The guys the company considers the FACE of the brand. The second tier guys often get the secondary title reigns (IC and US Titles). Those are many times the mid card or future main eventers. By using Title reigns I was simply showing where Eddie placed in the grand scheme of the WWE and WCW. He had 4 secondary title reigns and 1 world title reign. It shows that the overwhelming portion of his career was spent as a mid-card guy. He was never really considered the Face of the company or a guy that the company could put the belt on consistently or for a long period of time.

I will say that I agree with your last point, theone. I'm 37 years old and started watching wrestling in 1978 at the age of 7. I remember Bruno, Superstar Graham, at the tail ends of their careers. I saw Flair, Hogan, Harley Race and Dusty Rhodes in their primes. I used to collect bootleg video tapes from Japan and watched Inoki, Tsuruta, Baba, Choshu, Misawa etc. So my personal top 10 will be drastically different from yours. Eddie was great but doesn't even come close to my personal top 10.

From 92tombstone92 on 8/13/08 10:52 PM

i'm probably the youngest one on this site and i started watching wrestling a little before Evolution broke up

From theminister on 8/14/08 9:12 AM

It's OK I might be the oldest. I began watching just before Bob Backlund won the WWWF Title from Billy Superstar Graham.

From FLCchampRUSH on 8/14/08 12:13 PM

God! I LOVE debates like this!!! Okay... Andre: In my personal opinion, is to wrestling what Jerry West is to the NBA. For most of his career, Andre wrestled at a level no one had EVER seen a big man perform. Having the condition that he was afflicted with, he lived his life in the wind and his body and performance paid the price for it. During his days wrestling in France and Canada, he wrestled under 450 pounds, consistently. It wasn't until his debut with WWWF/E that his weight ballooned to his infamous 500+. Before then, he was a very agile, (including being a midrange flyer) pretty fast big man. All in all, if he hadn't done what he did for the biz in the 70's, there COULDN'T have been a Hulkamania in the 80's or a Attitude Era in the 90's. Period.

Jim Ross: No arguments here. Hands down THE best play by play man in ANY sport. I would LOVE to hear him call a professional football game! Gordon Solie, though I've never had the opportunity to hear him call a match, was cited as JR's own personal influence, and with that credit, I'll agree that his place was deserved. My personal pick for the future, Joey Styles in the next 5 to 10 years. As THE voice of ECW, he did for that promotion what JR did for WWE: he brought passion behind that mic, and into homes nation and worldwide.

Eddie Guerrero: Wow. I'm at a loss, here. On one hand, I AM a fan of his ring work. I haven't seen many of his brothers work, except Hector and Classic (God, I LOVE that nickname!), but they were both senior citizens at the time. I do agree that Gory was the best, based simply on the fact that so many move sets are given to his credit. As for his HoF run, I DO believe it was premature, and based solely on his untimely death. I mean, let's be honest, theminister kinda schooled EVERYBODY on Eddie's title runs and accomplishments, and frankly, his impact (not JUST title reigns) on wrestling doesn't merit such a quick vote into the HoF. I believe that was Vince's way of making ammends to Eddie's family, for reasons that escape me at this time. Personally, if Vince was feeling guilty, he should've owned some responsibility on Benoit, too (but, that's a whole 'nother can of worms). All in all, Eddie should've gotten in, just not so soon.

From theminister on 8/14/08 1:28 PM

I agree that Eddie was put into the HOF too soon. He definitely deserves the honor but how come Owen didn't get the same treatment? I imagine his family had something to do with it. But even when Bret came around, Owen still hasn't gotten into the HOF. I think the WWE needed to make amends for Owen much more than Eddie.

I agree with you on Andre, FLC. He doesn't get the credit he deserves for his ability in the ring. He was awesomely agile before he ballooned to WM3 proportions.

As for JR he is the best at calling a match and telling i's story. FLC you mentioned Solie. He was great. I used to get Florida Championship Wrestling in NYC, late at night on UHF channel 41 when I was like 12 years old, so I heard him pretty regularly. He was cool because he made wrestling sound like a REAL SPORT.

From FLCchampRUSH on 8/14/08 5:58 PM

I thought Owen Made it in before Bret?... If not, then, yeah, it's a tragedy that he hasn't been voted in yet. You listed Eddie's accolades, and we know that Owen has his own... Then again, do we even know what the qualifications are to be considered for HoF inclusion? I can think of many who should be in, who aren't!

From theminister on 8/14/08 10:50 PM

I just looked at the list on WWE.com and Owen is not there. I agree there are quite a few guys who should be there who aren't. Owen is certainly one of them.