From theminister on 6/5/08 12:38 PM

All the "medical" references you made were theories strung together by Chris Nowitski's foundation. There is no real proof or evidence that Benoit didn't know what he was doing. He sent text messages and systematically killed his wife and child. Those are not actions of a man with the mental capacity of a 5 year old or the brain deterioration of an 80 year old.

Also there seems to be good evidence that Nancy was going to leave Chris and take their son with her. The more fesible reason for Benoit's actions are that he did a, "If I can't have you, no one will" type of crime.

The bottomline is this, Chris Benoit died a murderer and was too much of a coward to face the music so he killed himself. Let's stop making excuses for what he did because what he did is inexcusable. As a husband and parent it boggles my mind that anyone could do such a horrific act. I respected and admired Chris Benoit as a wrestler but I have lost all respect for him as a human being.

RIP: Nancy and Daniel!!!

From jeff on 6/5/08 1:00 PM

Any respect Chris Benoit had was lost when he killed his wife and son. What the media portrayed about Benoit was facts. Anyone who kills their own family is a horrible person so don't blame the media for telling the truth. Right now I hope Chris Benoit is in hell because that's where he deserves to be. I have respect Chris Benoit the wrestler not Chris Benoit the murderer.

From cptcharisma1157 on 6/5/08 3:34 PM

Benoit grew several mental problems from repeated head injuries and drug usage. Chris Benoit was a good person, and like no other man, should not be judged for one action. As anybody who ever met Chris Benoit would tell you, the man who killed his family is not the same man they knew and loved. Chris snapped. Everybody in the WWE agreed that Chris was being overworked, he was run ragged. This, in addition to his deleria and post-concussion syndrom, was why he did what he did.
There is no body in the world who can claim they are perfect. Benoit absolutely felt remorse, before he took his own life. He placed bibles beside his loved ones hoping they could make it into heaven, even if they wouldn't meet him there.
Personally, I think that no matter how horrible or cruel someone's actions are, if they are truly sorry, and and pray for forgiveness they deserve to be forgiven. Nobody knows the exact reason for Chris's actions, except that he was relatively nuts. You shouldn't judge another by there actions, that's God's place. If Benoit was bad person then, he will be forever punished for it. But it's not ours, or the media's place to make that judgment

From DoubleL on 6/5/08 5:16 PM

Ok, ok, ok hold on. Let?s look at the situation from the fans point of view. No one here knew Chris Benoit personally, so we don't know what kind of family man or human being he was. Us as Fans, only seen him do what he did for a living, wrestle/entertain. The man was a talented athlete and could perform wonders in the ring, but as a human being, from that one instance, Benoit was a horrible person. I have met the man and received an autograph from him and he seemed like a nice guy, I thought he was cool and I could tell he had a true respect for the fans. As for the way he acted outside his profession judgeing from this one instance, No, No Respect. Just like Steve Austin, great athlete/ entertainer but outside of the ring he's a physical abuser to his girlfriends, horrible.

Any man who would physically harm/ kill a woman or child will receive no respect from me. That person deserves nothing but judgment and bad comments. As an athlete, yes I enjoyed Chris Benoit's matches very entertaining but that?s where my respect ends for him. The man is no longer going to be remembered as the Canadian Crippler, a former World Champion, or as a WWE athlete. Benoit is going to be remembered for the horrendous crime he committed against the ones he loved. He?ll be known as a MURDERER in my eyes!

From bpapa on 6/5/08 5:40 PM

We'll never know exactly what went on inside of Chris Benoit's head during that time. It's very hard to either condemn or condone his actions because of this. I do think though, that there had to be something WRONG in there for the man to have killed his wife and own son. My guess (and that's all we can do here, is guess), is that a combination of drugs and injuries amplified Benoit's temper to the point where he just lost it.

From JamesP on 6/5/08 9:50 PM

"What the media portrayed about Benoit was facts."

You're joking, aren't you?

From FLCchampRUSH on 6/5/08 9:51 PM

I've talked about this and read about this since I first heard about it. DoubleL had a point when he said we, as fans, DON'T know what type of person he was, we simply knew him as a character on a wrestling show. Bpapa said that he doesn't know if he should be condemned. As a wrestler, a husband, a father, and most importantly, a man of faith (I'd say Christian, but I don't know how people on this site wear their religion), it is NOT our place to condemn him, as a person. His actions were deplorable, they were horrific, they were inexcusable, but HE has to face the consequences for those actions. I respect the man's accomplishments, and I feel that it was tasteless on the part of the WWE to remove his accomplishments, his likeness, his legacy from their archives. An issue of WWE magazine was released after the tragedy, that featured the most devasting finishers of all-time, with the Crippler Crossface ranked at #13 (eerily creepy AND unlucky). The following issue saw his rank blurred out of vision.
I understand people's feelings about such a touchy subject, especially since it is viewed in the media as a "big, bad 'roid freak" wrestler and his defenseless son and wife. Theminister commented that Nancy was going to leave Chris and take Daniel. Well, that's true. It was also true while Chris and Nancy were still active, TOGETHER in WCW. He was abusive then, and she didn't leave. Not saying that she deserved her fate, but, I doubt that her leaving is what caused this outcome. I do believe that Chris was being overworked. Not an excuse, especially since he worked for the chinese sweatshop we call WWE. Chris was run ragged. Not an excuse, because he'd worked with and thru injuries for years. But, those aren't excuses either, and I really believe what Paul Heyman said in an interview for The UK Sun. Paul said that there are no words to describe what happened. Especially when you take into account the type of people Nancy and Chris were, together. "Chris worshipped and adored Nancy and Daniel," Paul said. And, if there was a mental defect, Chris' legacy deserves a small piece of compassion. Yes, I said COMPASSION. Nancy and Daniel, I pray that they are resting in peace, and I pray that Chris does, too.

From cptcharisma1157 on 6/6/08 12:47 AM

I very much agree with you FLCchampRUSH,
that's why i said "I think that no matter how horrible or cruel someone's actions are, if they are truly sorry, and and pray for forgiveness they deserve to be forgiven." and "You shouldn't judge another by there actions, that's God's place."
I'm absolutely not condoning his actions in any way. I'm just saying the man had problem's and should be left alone.

From theone86 on 6/6/08 5:46 AM

I'll dive headfirst into this discussion later, but I was just wandering WWE.com and I found an actual photo with Beniot in it. I thought they removed everything relating to him.

http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/superstars/theodorelong/photos1/photos/

From DaneBramage on 6/6/08 9:37 AM

Can you hate someone for mental illness?

It seems pretty undeniable that Benoit's actions were a result of mental illness. Now granted, these were a result of multiple concussions and steroid use over many years, and these were choices he made with his style of wrestling. But it could have happened to any number of wrestlers over the years.

I was never one of Benoit's biggest fans but could definitely recognise his talent. I was watching a WCW show the other day and it was pretty crap really. But when Jeff Jarrett issued an open challenge that was answered by Benoit, I marked out for it knowing it would be worth watching. I have no problem still watching and enjoying his matches and that match was by far the best thing on the show.

I'm not religious at all, and the 'only God can judge' idea is a load of shit to me, I think people should just make their own minds up. If you still watch and enjoy his matches and respect him, good for you. If not, fair enough, that's also your decision.

From theminister on 6/6/08 10:19 AM

There's a huge difference between Benoit the wrestler and Benoit the person. He was a great wrestler this is undeniable and his accomplishments can be respected. WHAT HE DID TO HIS FAMILY WAS REPREHENSIBLE, this too is undeniable and for that he deserves no respect.

I certainly agree that God is our ultimate judge but the Bible says "you will know them by their fruits" (they don't call me the Minister for nothing). This means that by a person's actions we can get a decent look at their character. The last few acts of Benoit's life may tell us something about his character. As for forgiveness, we don't know if he wanted forgiveness. He killed himself without a note. Who knows if he was sorry. He may just have been too cowardly to face the consequences of his actions. I hope he sought forgiveness from God and I hope he got it, but that doesn't excuse what he did. IMO, by taking his own life he showed me that he wasn't sorry enough to face the music for what he did.

Personally, I think the brain damage stuff is way overblown. Everything that was said about him by friends, the murders themselves, the text messages to Chavo all seem to indicate a guy who knew what he was doing. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. Benoit murdered his wife and kid, Benoit took steroids, Benoit chose to bang his head a million times with the flying headbutt, Benoit chose his profession and all that went along with it. He is responsible for what happened, period, end of story!!!

Benoit's achievements in the ring are commendable. If you want to remember him that way that's your choice. I have tried to watch a few of his matches since his death, but it's hard for me to separate the wrestler from the guy who murdered his family.

From SnoHo24 on 6/6/08 11:19 AM

So you're saying you can't see the side of this incident where he had mental problems? If you have a medical condition that affects your brain, and you thrown in prolonged steroid usage, you will obviously have some sort of mental defect. The way some of you guys are talking it seems like you're treating this as a normal guy murdering his family for no reason. The fact is he had a mental condition that affected any and all thoughts and judgement. It was the equivalent of "roid rage", just thrown in mental instability from a disability.

Yes, he was responsible, but if he was really that evil of man, why did he kill himself in the process? He was either completely impaired to the point where he didn't know what to do, or he felt remorse for his actions and that was the only way to somewhat redeem himself for his actions. If he really was evil, he wouldn't have killed himself along with his family.

Don't be so quick to judge him before you know some background behind what was affecting him at the time.

From JamesP on 6/6/08 11:44 AM

I agree with SnoHo. It's obvious that he had some mental condition, considering the fact that his brain resembled that of four other football players who killed themselves. Theminister, how can you condemn Benoit for giving himself all of those concussions?

From DaneBramage on 6/6/08 11:44 AM

He left copies of the Bible by both his wife and son's bodies. That certainly suggests he did feel remorse and wanted forgiveness.

From FLCchampRUSH on 6/6/08 12:12 PM

"You will know them by their fruits" is in the bible, but, so is "judge not, lest ye be judged". As a man of faith, minister, you should know that you are not judged by one, two, four, or fifteen sinful acts. The fact that Benoit allegedly committed these murders (yes, I said "allegedly" meaning that he was not tried nor convicted, by a court of law and a jury of his peers. He was judged and sentenced by the court of public opinion.) IS reprehensible. But, I recall a story I heard years ago. After Jeffery Dahmer was sentenced, and sent to prison, he was saved (accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior. Possibly was even baptized). He repented for the sins he'd committed, and lived (as best he could, I assume) as a Christian. As we all know, Dahmer was murdered, himself, while in prison. What's the meaning behind this? If our church dogmas are valid and correct, when we die and go to heaven, HE'LL be there! Maybe it's just me, I don't know. I can't flip a switch and despise and hate a man for the crime he commits. Yeah, like everybody else, I was shocked and appalled by the news. But, I've seen much more worse tragedies and we're still holding on to this one like it's the most evil thing EVER.

From theminister on 6/6/08 4:55 PM

Let me make myself clear, I don't condemn Chris Benoit that's not my call to make. I don't hate Chris Benoit. As a wrestling fan, he was one of my favorites. And as a human it saddens me that he and his family are dead. The question for this blog was whether or not Chris Benoit deserves respect. And based on his actions I don't think he does.

I'm not nor was I ever judging whether Chris Benoit can forgiven by God. Of course he can and as I said earlier I hope he felt remorse and sought that forgiveness. But that's for God to determine not me. What I am saying is that from what I can see, his actions don't seem to reflect that. The fact is Benoit didn't hang around long enough to give us any clues into whether he was remorseful or not. He took his own life. His actions seem to be that of a man who didn't want to face the music. The fact that he left Bibles by his victims can mean a lot of things. It may or may not mean he was remorseful. If he was remorseful, great. If he received forgiveness from God, even better. But that doesn't change the fact that what he did was reprehensible and disgusting.

And please don't give me "alledgedly." The crime scene investigators and the police have determined that there is no one else who could have committed this crime. To say "alledgedly" is to do a disrespect to the memories of Nancy and Daniel Benoit.

As for the mental illness question, if Chris Benoit had a mental condition he should have sought help. So his mental condition doesn't exonerate him for what he did. It's just an excuse, plain and simple.

Let me say again so I am not misunderstood, I do not condemn Chris Benoit nor do I hate him. But it was stated in the original blog that he deserves to be respected and in my humble opinion I don't think he does.

From SnoHo24 on 6/6/08 5:08 PM

I'm pretty sure he didn't know he had a mental illness, so he really couldn't seek help. Its not an excuse if he didn't know he had the disability. Look at some people who die of heart attacks. In some autopsies, its discovered they had heart disease and they didn't know about it. So don't say its an excuse when someone says "Benoit killed them, but he was mentally unstable and didn't realize it".

And secondly, you don't need to respect Benoit's actions, but you should respect the man for all he did prior to his meltdown. He dedicated his life to entertain fans like YOU, which is probably one of the reasons he took steroids, and you can't even respect him for that. That's very sad and its a shame you don't respect someone because of one mistake they made, that just happened to kill him along with his family. Don't just focus on the two murders--look to the suicide as well.

From JamesP on 6/6/08 5:12 PM

"As for the mental illness question, if Chris Benoit had a mental condition he should have sought help. So his mental condition doesn't exonerate him for what he did. It's just an excuse, plain and simple."

How in the hell is someone capable of knowing if they have a mental condition without the doctors telling him?

From theminister on 6/6/08 6:15 PM

JamesP you've got to ne kidding. People get treatment for their mental illnesses and brain injuries all the time and the overwhelming majority do it before they kill people.

The brain injury that most claim Benoit had, wouldn't have just snuck up on him. Apparently his brain was beaten up after all those years of pounding. I'm sure there would have been symptons along the way, headaches, concussions something. I'm sure he had some ct scans and MRIs at some point in his career. I'm sure if something wasn't right, a doctor would have told him. If I were a betting man, I'd wager that if Benoit had a brain injury he probably knew it and probably could have done something about it BEFORE HE KILLED HIS FAMILY.

Folks, can we please stop making excuses for Benoit!!! Brain injury or not, what he did is inexcusable and indefensible.

From Deadman91 on 6/8/08 10:05 AM

That's the problem with people who just look at Benoit for what he did in the end, in fact, thats almost everyones problem. Why do you look at what he did in the end and not at what he did for us, the wrestling fans, during his wrestling career. He put his body on the line, day in and day out, recieved surgery and STILL came back to wrestle to entertain US. For those of you who watched RAW one year ago for Benoits attribute, you would hear how all of his friends, yes friends not just co-workers, talk about how nice he was, even thoiugh he did have his problems. So, what i still don't get is WHY IS HE A BAD GUY, and don't say "because he is a murderer" because that is just a plain stupid excuse if you ask me.

From JamesP on 6/8/08 10:55 AM

Yeah, you have to consider all of the mental problems he had that he himself probably wasn't even aware of.

From SnoHo24 on 6/8/08 9:15 PM

"Folks, can we please stop making excuses for Benoit!!!"

ITS NOT AN EXCUSE IF THE ILLNESS WASN'T IDENTIFIED BEFORE THE INCIDENT!!!

And for the record, alot of injuries involving the brain are not only difficult to notice at first, but if and when they are found, it is very hard to treat them or do ANYTHING about them. Even if Benoit DID know about the injury, it would've been incredibly hard to treat, if it could be treated at all. Obviously you haver no idea how serious it was. This was a powerful Alzheimer's-like disease, thrown in with brain damage from wrestling, brain damage from steroids, and another condidtion that destroyed his brain cells.

Oh, and just an example, Justin Straylzick (probably spelled wrong) was a guard for the Pittsburgh Steelers who had severe brain damage from playing OL and didn't know. One noght, he went nuts. He ran from the cops for no reason, endangering the lives of dozens of motorists, jumped out of his car and ran in front of a semi, which killed him.

THIS SHIT HAPPENS. DON'T SAY ITS AN EXCUSE.

From theminister on 6/11/08 11:07 AM

"ITS NOT AN EXCUSE IF THE ILLNESS WASN'T IDENTIFIED BEFORE THE INCIDENT!!!"

You're making two very big presumptions.

First, for a a rugged competitor like Benoit, it's very possible that he knew and chose not to do anything about it. We hear about athletes all the time who have head trauma issues, like post concussion syndrome, and know all about it yet they don't want to stop playing. Ryan Church of the NY Mets just went through this sort of thing. He had post concussion syndrome but didn't want to stop playing. Now he could be out for several months. Athletes are stubborn and often don't want to take doctor's opinions.

Secondly, the police who investigated the case seem to think something totally different as this Atlanta Journal-Constitution article from February reveals: (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/fayette/stories/2008/02/15/benoit_0217.html)
If you bother to read the article it says that the police have documents saying that Nancy suspected Benoit of and affair and that she was going to leave him. As a result, Benoit killed his wife and son. They don't seem to buy the brain injury theory. The brain injury theory was created by Chris Nowitski and Benoit's dad jumped on it because he has an ax to grind with the WWE. This theory is the basis for Benoit's dad lawsuit against the WWE. The police evidence shows that this was probably a domestic dispute where Chris Benoit systematically killed his wife and kid.

You can believe what you want but the real evidence gathered by people with no agenda shows that Chris Benoit was a murderer, plain and simple. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR HIS ACTIONS. PERIOD!!!

From theminister on 6/11/08 1:51 PM

I forgot to address Deadman91's comment. "Why do you look at what he did in the end and not at what he did for us, the wrestling fans, during his wrestling career."

Who cares what Benoit did for us!!! That pales in comparison to what he did to his family. Wrestling is entertainment, what Benoit did to his family is REAL LIFE!!! Are we wrestling fans so self-centered and so oblivious that we fail to realize that what Benoit did is an atrocity that cannot be swept under the rug simply because he gave his all in the ring. Maybe it's because I'm a 37 year old husband and father of two but to me what Benoit did in the ring for wrestling fans in UNIMPORTANT!!! He killed his wife and kid!!! In my opinion, what Benoit did to his family disgusts me and cancels out EVERYTHING he did in the ring.

Mark my words, 10 or 20 years from now, all people will remember about Chris Benoit is that he was "that wrestler who killed his wife and kid." His career will be a footnote. Sadly, that is and will always be his legacy.

From SnoHo24 on 6/11/08 7:59 PM

You are incredibly biased. You rely more on the media than on the facts persented before you. He had problems, and the medical reports (not just locally, but nationally) proved this point. Medical experts were interviewed on several news stations (MSNBC, CNN, etc.) about Benoit's condition and what role they thought steroids played in it. They all agreed it was the general cause of the murder.

Listen, I had a brother who died at 8 1/2 years old from severe medical complications. He had alot of serious problems, but was a generally normal kid. The fact was that, due to the steroids he was on to keep his body from failing, he became very agressive. At his death, he was close to 5"6" and weighed more than 200 lbs, and almost none of it was body fat. He hit my grandmother, who is very small and frail, in the face on several occasions. Doctors later said those hits probably shortened her life expectancy. So, when my grandmother (who is now in her late 80's) dies, do we blame it on him, since he had no control over what he was doing when he hit her?

You obviously have NO knowledge whatsoever of medical deficiencies. Don't talk about this kind of thing unless you have solid evidence to back it up. Its a very delicate subject and you are starting to sound like an intolorant piece of crap. Stop before you sound any more ignorant, please.

From theminister on 6/11/08 10:22 PM

SnoHo24, I'm sorry about your brother and grandmother but don't tell me what I know and don't know. My 3 year old daughter has a severe brain injury from birth that causes seizures and makes her unable to walk or talk. So please keep your personal opinions about what you think I know to yourself because health of my daughter and your brother have nothing to do with Chris Benoit.

You mentioned "SOLID EVIDENCE." Everyone of you guys says he had a brain injury like it's a fact, but there is no solid evidence of this. The ONLY "Evidence" of this is Chris Nowitski's group study. There is no other evidence of a brain injury. The brain injury theory is just that, a theory. There is only one group to examine his brain and its a group that has an agenda. So it's no surprise that they said he had a brain injury. Until verified by an unbiased group with no agenda, it's not real evidence. And even if there was a brain injury, we still have no idea whether this played any factor into what happened. Brain injury does not automatically equal murder. As I said before, there are plenty of people with brain injuries who don't kill people.

The Medical experts who you mentioned from TV didn't look at Chris Benoit. The national media (MSNBC, CNN and FOX) were so biased and inept in this case it was a joke. They said steroids were the cause without any evidence and got doctors and other so called experts to make their case.

The fact is there is no way ANYONE can PROVE what made Benoit do what he did!!! People seem to want to come up with a reason as to why Benoit killed his family, so we, the wrestling fan, will believe anything that will let him off the hook. But the real FACTS, the only facts that can be verified, which are from the police investigation, don't seem to be in line with a brain injury causing the murder. The investigators think it was a domestic dispute that caused Benoit to kill his wife and son. This is the only solid evidence and investigation we have on this case.

I'll say it again, I hope Benoit was sorry for what he did. I even hope he got forgiveness from God. But the question of respect is another issue entirely. Chris Benoit was a murderer and until there is "SOLID EVIDENCE" that proves otherwise, there is no excuse for what he did. I loved him as a wrestler but based on the FACTS, I cannot respect the man after what he did.

From FLCchampRUSH on 6/12/08 1:55 AM

There's a reason that I think that this issue hasn't been talked about between wrestling fans. We are not directly linked to the tragedy, and have nothing but the media and WWE to gather any information from... I think it's great that this has opened up some kind of dialouge about the tragedy, and that it has given, at least, a few fans the opportunity to air their grievances about it. But, I still stand by my earlier statement, minister. Allegedly. Knowing the mistakes that have and can be made at crime scenes, knowing (personally) police officers that want to get the "job done" as quickly and with as little paperwork as possible, and seeing the speed of retraction that the WWE pulled to distance themselves from the issue puts me into that position. None of us, fans, marks, whatever we're called, were at the scene, when it happened. The "facts" in question are simply "findings" that people in influential positions have fed us as "facts". Was it found that Benoit sent text messages? Yes. Were there signs of Benoit murdering his family? ... There were signs OF murder, but none finding Benoit responsible (you know, unless you use him hanging from a weight machine as "proof"). Suicide has been linked to 'roid rage (depression). Murder has not been, but domestic abuse has been. If it is true that Benoit had been abusing roids (never failed a drug test: fact from WWE records) for years, we would've seen signs of his tempermant, or rages, through shoot interviews, backstage grumblings (none of which have surfaced, before or since the tragedy), or different outlets. People had nothing but good things to say about Chris and Nancy, and it's a real shame that they WILL always be remembered as theminister stated ( as "the guy who murdered his family"). I also think that this should be the last we, fans or anyone, should talk about this situation. Reason is simply that this is too hot button a topic to try and discuss it rationally.

From JamesP on 6/12/08 3:34 PM

theminister, you are aware that reports came out saying that Benoit's brain resembled an 80 year old with alzhemier's (sp?)right?

From theminister on 6/12/08 7:57 PM

I am aware of that. That is the study I referred to. It was a study sponsored by Christopher Nowitski's group. It was not an independent study or one called for by those investigating the case. It was conducted by a group that was working with Chris Benoit's dad and is the basis for his lawsuit against the WWE. He claims that the WWE somehow was responsible for Chris Benoit's supposed brain damage.

If people would bother to do a little reading beyond the headline of a news story one would find that if this study is accurate (and that's a big if) it still proves nothing about what Benoit did. The final result of the study said that the supposed damage to Benoit's brain MIGHT CONTRIBUTE to behavioral problems. The study is neither conclusive nor does it say for sure that this is the reason for what Benoit did.

Most read that some study says Benoit had brain damage, so therefore that's why he killed his wife and son. But if people would read further they would find that the study doesn't say that. But when people are looking for excuses why bother to look at the facts?